If Wim Wenders could remake one of his past films in 3D, he says it’d be Until the End of the World. In the 287-minute sci-fi epic from 1991, the characters get so addicted to a camera that can capture their dreams, it ruins their lives. In a way, Wenders, back then, was already fantasising about the possibilities of cinema, and, with a number of recent features, he’s been pushing the boundaries of 3D. In 2011’s Pina, the 3D captures the intricate dance choreography of Pina Bausch; in 2015’s Everything Will Be Fine, the grief is so strong that it literally jumps out of the screen if you’re wearing the right glasses.

Wenders’ latest feature is Anselm, a 3D documentary shot in 6K about the German artist Anselm Kiefer. Here, the 3D technology brings vast depth to the jaw-dropping images on the screen, allowing the viewer to feel like a floating organism that can appreciate the paintings, sculptures, and installations from all angles. When the film recreates Kiefer’s hazy childhood recollections and abstract thoughts, it’s if as the magic of 3D allows you to dive into someone’s brain. “I wouldn’t have dared face his work, and his work on memory, without that language of 3D,” says Wenders. “Visiting a place beats any movie, but a film comes close to replacing that.”

Kiefer, a 78-year-old heralded by the New York Times as “the greatest living artist”, is famous for projects that utilise unusual textures: flowers, glass, human hair, you name it – or shed it. In the documentary, a flamethrower melts and distorts a work-in-progress, while a piece called 10 Years of Solitude presents 3D semen – not the production of it, but the hardened remnants. “There’s a shot where the camera glides over books and the pages open up,” says Wenders. “Every page is filled with his sperm. I don’t want to know how he produced it.” He laughs. “It’s a strange way to manifest time, and bring himself to the page. It’s amazing.”

Wenders, also 78, is a German filmmaking legend responsible for masterpieces such as Wings of Desire, Alice in the Cities, and Paris, Texas. In particular, his early collaborations with the cinematographer Robbie Müller were built on spontaneity and used the camera to explore geography with a curious eye: the angels peering over Berlin in Wings of Desire and its sequel Faraway, So Close!; the endless, desolate spaces of Kings of the Road and Paris, Texas; the swooping shots through train carriages in Wrong Move and The American Friend. With Müller, was he using 2D in a pre-3D age to explore the possibilities of space?

“Well, space is a great advantage for cinema,” says Wenders. “It’s the reason they’re called moving pictures. You’re right, I’ve invented a lot of ways to make the camera move and appear to control space, but it was always make-believe and on a flat screen. When I first saw that flat screen open, it was 2009 and on a funky film called U2 3D. The film sucked because it was technically not done well, but it opened up a whole big window for me.”

Our conversation is taking place in November on Zoom – on 2D, sadly – and my virtual background is a collage of stills from Until the End of the World. “That film, behind you,” says Wenders, “I was editing that when I met Anselm for the first time.” While cutting Until the End of the World, Wenders would visit the same smoky restaurant every night. On one occasion, Kiefer entered and realised every table was taken; spotting a seat next to Wenders, he asked if it was free. “We were the last guests to leave the restaurant. We met for two weeks, every night, and became good friends. He knew I dreamed of being a painter, and I knew he’d love to make movies. We shook hands and said we’d do something eventually.”

However, the collaboration took around three decades to materialise. In 2019, Kiefer invited Wenders to his 200-acre art studio in Barjac, allowing the filmmaker to wander around on his own all day. “In the evening, I was totally wasted but exhilarated,” recalls Wenders. “I said to Anselm, ‘It’s now or never.’ He said, ‘Good. We’re getting old.’” At that point, the only film Kiefer had ever seen in 3D was Pina. “He was amazed when I suggested 3D. He said, ‘Everything is up to you. Just promise me that, in the end, I’ll be surprised.’”

True to his word, Wenders stunned Kiefer with an unorthodox approach. In two supporting roles, the artist’s own son, Daniel Kiefer, plays Anselm as a 40-year-old, and Wenders’ grand-nephew, Anton Wenders, depicts the artist as an eight-year-old boy. “He didn’t know we were venturing into his childhood, or the time when he lived as an unknown painter in Odenwald. No art critic or artist ever visited him while he worked there for ten years. He was secluded, doing a lot of the work he would later be famous for.”

Less surprising is that Anselm touches on Kiefer’s notorious 1969 exhibition “Occupations”, a collection of photographs in which the artist does a Nazi salute in public locations. Kiefer intended to cross-examine his country’s relationship with its dark history. Around Europe, “Occupations” was praised; in Germany, some critics labelled him a neo-Nazi. “Germans weren’t used to artists exposing themselves,” says Wenders. “He was letting people face their own past through his actions. It took decades until they finally understood. It was a necessary piece of work because, at the time, German history, fascism, and the Holocaust in Germany were almost forbidden to talk about. He brought it back up.”

“Germans weren’t used to artists exposing themselves. Anselm Kiefer was letting people face their own past through his actions. It took decades until they finally understood his work” – Wim Wenders

However, Wenders notes, “It was a great, important piece of work, but he didn’t want to be reduced to that. He expanded his painting into many areas: history, poetry, religion, myth, even science. In Anselm’s mind, anything can be painted, and that’s amazing.”

As for Wenders’ next film, he has the Tokyo-set Perfect Days out in cinemas in early 2024. Selected by Japan for their Oscar submission, it was shot in 2D and follows someone who’s so old-school he listens to cassettes. Wenders, however, praises 3D outside of his own movies, and is an avowed fan of James Cameron. “I loved Avatar 2,” he says. “Cameron is fighting the big fight now in Hollywood, promoting native 3D, as he calls it, to shoot with two cameras. Most studios are lazy and deal with one camera, and let computers figure out the space, which is blasphemy and a crime for the eyes.”

According to Wenders, Hollywood studios wasted 3D technology on action movies and animation. “It’s a crime,” the director says. “It disappeared out of the documentary range, for which it was perfect.” However, he’s working on another non-fiction film, The Secret of Places, that will be in 3D. “A film about architecture needs that medium of 3D,” he says. “We started shooting it five years ago, and it’ll take another couple of years. I show the buildings develop, and I show the places where [Peter Zumthor] builds until the building is there. There’s nothing better to take you into another world than 3D.”

Anselm is out in UK cinemas on December 8

Join Dazed Club and be part of our world! You get exclusive access to events, parties, festivals and our editors, as well as a free subscription to Dazed for a year. Join for £5/month today.