When Danielle Brathwaite-Shirley was growing up, the artist believed that in video games, when you saw a character on screen, that person had somehow been scanned and a bit of their soul, their essence, was now living in the game.

It’s a belief system that underscores much of the intention behind Brathwaite-Shirley’s own practice: using performance, instillation, technology and multifarious artistic techniques to create work that archives and centres the varieties of Black trans experiences.

Brathwaite-Shirley’s latest project is a new video game called I CAN’T FOLLOW YOU ANYMORE. Commissioned by Manchester’s Factory International, it is a browser-based experience inspired by vampires, rhythm games and PS1-era horror aesthetics that explores prescient themes such as radicalism, false leaders, revolutionaries, and the dangers of following people uncritically.

“The story is set up as an idea,” Brathwaite-Shirley says. “There is a Black trans leader, because we don’t have many, but this Black trans leader is from a long time ago and the way that they would like to lead would probably put those in their community at risk. But that’s what that person is used to and so they see that as a good system. However, it is not the system that we need today.”

Ahead of I CAN’T FOLLOW YOU ANYMORE’s release on Halloween, Dazed spoke to Brathwaite-Shirley about the genesis of game, the need for trans villains and the exhaustion with passive art.

Where did the idea for I CAN’T FOLLOW YOU ANYMORE come from?

Danielle Brathwaite-Shirley: It came from thinking about the lack of leaders we currently have. We’ve seen it a lot recently, where a bunch of people claiming to be leaders are leading large groups of people down quite treacherous paths because something they say does make sense and does feel good. Andrew Tate is a great example of someone who appeals to a demographic of young men who are disillusioned, which accounts for a lot of people. He can use that vulnerability and weaponise it against a group of people he may not like. It’s a lot about this celebrity culture and how that continues to lead to failing dictatorships and a mass amplification of a particular form of opinion, as well as a mass erasure of those people who are underneath this banner of this one individual.

I did an interview once and, in the comments, someone called me a ‘pronoun Nazi fascist’. When I hear the term ‘pronoun fascist’, I think of something terrible; I recoiled when I saw that. But I think fascism can form within any particular group or idea, and I started thinking about what it might look like to take the language that we use for diversity and inclusion and see how that could lead to a fascistic mindset if you wanted to. It leads back to this idea that when trying to create a utopia, a revolution or a movement, you can, inadvertently, subjugate those that you say you’re in community with. You can become the aggressor.

How do Black trans experiences feed into that?

Danielle Brathwaite-Shirley: I don’t just want to present trans people as lovely and morally perfect. I want us to have some depth. I want there to be some trans villains. I don’t think we have enough trans villains made by trans people at all. Usually, if we are the villains, the reveal of us being trans becomes part of the villainy. So I want to diversify this idea that trans people are all merciful and amazing and perfect. No, we should be able to have villains and make wrong choices as well. That’s hard within the trans community, because if you’re in a public conversation, it doesn’t feel like you’re given the remit to make any kind of mistake. You can’t be anything but a perfect representation of trans people. That is a nightmare. 

Aesthetically, what were some of the things you were drawing from? 

Danielle Brathwaite-Shirley: I didn’t look at any modern depictions of vampires. I looked at the 1979 remake of Nosferatu. Then I looked at some depictions of Black vampires and that was literally it. To me, this vampire has a very different origin; it’s like an accidental vampire. It was resurrected unbeknownst to the people who resurrected it. It almost didn’t want to come back. Eventually, the ego takes over, though, and they start to become something that is consuming their own community.

It’s a topic I’ve been thinking a lot about recently, how social media is making us consume our own community as much as possible and then develop products so that the community will fund you for a particular kind of worldview that you have. There is a symbiotic relationship: people feel good that they can get a product from someone who is more local and connected to their community, but at the same time it enforces a very capitalistic mindset. It’s like, ‘I’ve got this following and so now I should make money from them.’

You’ve talked before about an exhaustion with passive art. How does working in an interactive medium subvert that?

Danielle Brathwaite-Shirley: Those in the arts space, go in there, suck in the work that person has done with any references that they want at their own leisure, and they can put in as little or as much effort as they want before they leave. Usually, it’s a very selfish thing. I hate that. I feel like that encourages people to believe that when they interact with something that maybe had cultural significance back in the day, that eventually that cultural significance can be removed and they can just enjoy it for the visual appeal. That ends up burying a lot of the reasons art is made and a lot of the power that it could have. I think our institutions are wholly responsible for removing power from art and essentially making a market where you sell it like stocks or shares.

Something that I’m super keen on doing is making the work respond to you. So as much as you put in, that’s as much as you get. If you have the mindset that you never play games and when you did play it, you died and so left – that is your experience. I am not going to try and edit that. I am not going to try and make it easier. I feel that you should miss some of it and the more work you put in the more that's there to discover. I think there needs to be a lot more work that puts the emphasis on the audience. I feel like we spend so much time babying them and so much time making it the most accessible, kindest experience for them. But actually, we’re not making them do any work. We’re just feeding into this consumerist world that we live in where you like, repost, tweet and take a picture for Instagram and then you’re done and you’ve helped [tackle] global warming. Actually, you’ve done nothing. I often say that the biggest medium I’m working with is the audience and how they feel after they leave the work. 

I CAN’T FOLLOW YOU ANYMORE is available to play at www.factoryinternational.org from 31 October 2023 – 31 January 2024.

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