Sleater-Kinney and The Linda Lindas in conversation

Since the release of their self-titled debut in 1995, Sleater-Kinney have become one of the most influential and respected indie rock bands in American music history. Their 11th album, Little Rope, which was released this January, shows that their music is still in a state of constant evolution, and still as vital as ever. The raw passion from their earlier work is still there, but is paired with anthemic, synth-driven stadium rock (like the gorgeous lead single “Say It Like You Mean It”) and stratospheric guitar riffs.

Sleater-Kinney was always an explicitly feminist project. Looking back at the timespan of their career, it’s depressing to consider that, while the last three decades have seen huge advances, the situation in the US has gone backwards for a lot of women – most notably in the overturning of Roe Vs Wade and the ensuing rollback of reproductive freedoms. Misogyny never went away, obviously, but in the era of tradwives and Andrew Tate, it has still made something of a comeback. There has never been a more pressing need for feminist culture – which, on the plus side, is experiencing a resurgence of its own. 

The Linda Lindas are part of a new generation continuing the tradition of bands like Sleater-Kinney. They first exploded onto the scene in 2021, when a video of them playing their song “Racist, Sexist Boy” became a viral sensation. Written during the pandemic, it was inspired by a real-life incident, when a boy in drummer Mila de La Garza’s school told her that his father had warned him to stay away from Chinese people (she was only 10 at the time). The song’s furious, sludgey intensity and uncompromising message struck a chord, and the band were soon after snapped up by Epitaph Records. 

When their first full-length album, Growing Up, was released in 2022, it received deservedly glowing reviews – it’s buoyant, surging with energy and extremely catchy, capturing a diverse breadth of feelings and experiences. Now, The Linda Lindas – all of whom but one are still in high school – are gearing up for a stadium tour with Green Day and working on their second album.

We caught up with both bands – who have a touching affection and respect for each other – to discuss how the music industry has changed, the resurgence of the riot grrrl sound, the changing nature of feminism in 2024, dinosaurs, Olivia Rodrigo, and more.

What do you like about each other’s music?

Lucia de la Garza (The Linda Lindas): We admire that you’re always so unafraid to try something new, and you seem very unapologetic. I was just listening to your new record, and I don’t know if it feels familiar because I’ve already listened to it five times or because it’s a Sleater Kinney record, but you have your own sound. It’s really cool and it’s something we’ve grown up with.

Eloise Wong (The Linda Lindas): You have so many cool ideas, guitar riffs, back-and-forth vocals – it’s all just so great.

Carrie Brownstein (Sleater-Kinney): I love your sound. I think it’s catchy and infectious, and I was going to use the word ‘unapologetic’, too. To me, you’re following this great tradition of southern Californian pop punk, but you also have your own sound, ideas, style, and point of view. I can hear your influences, but you’re also forging your own path, and that to me is the sign of a band that’s going to last a while, because it’s not just imitation.

Corin Tucker (Sleater-Kinney):  The use of melody is terrific, and there are a lot of different emotions in the music: there are full-on revolution songs and speaking truth to power songs, but you also just write from the heart. It feels very truthful and honest.

Let’s talk about the new Sleater-Kinney album. The lyrics are pretty dark but at the same time, the music often feels euphoric and expansive. How do those things fit together?

Carrie Brownstein: We wanted the album to sound extroverted and to reach people on a visceral level, but some of the lyrical content is grappling with ideas of loss, uncertainty and discomfort. Our favourite kind of music has that bittersweet combination, where the lyrics are heartfelt and maybe a little despairing, but in opposition to that, there’s a really catchy melody or guitar line.

Corin Tucker: I think that part of it was just having a visceral reaction to the past few years. The record is about getting older, feeling loss and the lack of respect which women have got in the United States in the past couple of years. There’s a lot to be upset about. It was almost like a return to what we started the band with; we just leaned into our strengths, and so much of the record came about organically.

How has starting out as an indie rock band changed between the mid-90s and today? We’re constantly hearing about the death of the music industry, but are there any upsides?

Bela Salazar (The Linda Lindas): Something cool about today is that music is very accessible, whereas I hear from my parents that back in the day, if you didn’t have the money to physically buy a record, that stopped you from listening to things.

Carrie Brownstein: We definitely agree, in the sense that we like how social media has dismantled a lot of those hierarchies. There are fewer gatekeepers, and people can get their music out into the world so much easier. It’s no longer the case that someone at a record store is the only person who knows certain information, and you don’t have to hunt down a magazine to tell you what the new releases are. That kind of access and availability is crucial for a wide range of voices to be heard. 

I think the trick, in terms of sustainability, is taking an infrastructure which has been reconfigured and figuring out a way where artists can still make money. Because when everything is free, it’s hard for artists to get paid. It puts more onus on the touring side of things when bands don’t make money from album sales or streaming revenue, and touring is expensive. I think we’re in a kind of in-between state.

“In the film industry, we have recently seen people standing up for themselves, and I think we’re long overdue for that in music” – Corin Tucker, Sleater-Kinney

What might be the solution to that problem?

Corin Tucker: I think that streaming needs to be reformed. If artists can’t make a living from it, it will only be the mega-stars who are able to survive, or people who are so privileged that the diversity of voices gets completely struck down. 

In the film industry, we have recently seen people standing up for themselves, and I think we’re long overdue for that in music – we do already have activists who are working to rewrite these laws. I would also love it if the United States government would put money towards funding the arts, but don’t hold your breath on that one. 

I’m not sure if either of you would identify with the term ‘riot grrrl’, but that sound seems to be having a big comeback at the moment – Olivia Rodrigo’s last album is one example. What do you think about the resurgence of this kind of music?

Corin Tucker: I wouldn’t call Sleater-Kinney a riot grrrl band, because we started after that movement had already run its course. But this idea of having a forceful female singer with guitars and drums, I love that music and I love hearing it in current artists. I love the Olivia Rodrigo album, and I love Blondshell, although she’s got a slightly different sound – it’s a bit more Liz Phair. It’s great to see a younger generation of women who are upfront about their lives and what they need from the world.

Carrie Brownstein: So many early iterations of political movements are powerful but flawed. What’s nice about a resurgence of the riot grrl ideology is that it’s shifted to a more modern perspective, where it’s more inclusive and intersectional. I think the tricky thing about the riot grrrl moniker, even early on, is that it didn’t do a great job of describing the music. It was an easy label to place on a wide-ranging group of bands that didn’t necessarily sound alike. But I do like the way that it has been reinterpreted in modern culture. If it just means being unabashed in telling your own story, then I think that’s wonderful. 

Lucia de la Garza: We’ve never really called ourselves a riot grrrl band, but we have a lot of respect for the movement, and we recognise that we wouldn’t be here or sound the way we sound without those bands. One of our first shows was opening for Bikini Kill, so we’ve been associated with that movement for pretty much as long as we’ve been a band. For us, we just say whatever we feel like saying in our songs and sometimes that happens to align with messages of feminism. 

Whether you call it riot grrrl or feminist punk or whatever, does that ethos risk being diluted if it’s being packaged to a mass audience?

Carrie Brownstein: I think most people know that what’s bubbling up to the mainstream is always an amalgamation of a lot of smaller artists who probably possess something a little more dangerous, uglier, more multi-dimensional, perhaps, and certainly less appealing. That doesn’t mean that the mainstream artists need to be maligned – what they're doing is important – but I think most of us are still looking elsewhere for a less palatable version. 

That’s just the cycle and it always has been – there's always a conversation in culture between what's on the fringes and what’s in the mainstream. Every once in a while it aligns, and what’s happening in the mainstream is interesting and nuanced enough that it sparks a conversation. 

I think what’s cool about Olivia Rodrigo is she seems like she would agree. She’s so enthusiastic about citing her influences.

Carrie Brownstein: Yeah, I mean, she’s taking The Breeders on tour – I love the idea of her fans going to see her show and watching this band that were huge in 1990. To me, she is one of the best iterations of this; she absolutely understands where her music comes from and seems like a very genuine person with great taste in music – more power to her for all of her success. I think it’s very cool to watch.

“What’s bubbling up to the mainstream is always an amalgamation of a lot of smaller artists who probably possess something a little more dangerous, uglier, more multi-dimensional” – Carrie Brownstein, Sleater-Kinney

How has feminism changed between the time Sleater-Kinney was starting out and today? In the US, it seems like a lot of things have gone backwards.

Corin Tucker: I would say that the most obvious example is the striking down of Roe v Wade, because of its immediate impact on women’s health care and the right to bodily autonomy. What I’ve noticed in terms of the difference is that back in the 1990s, people really didn’t want to say the word abortion. It was very taboo. 

It’s very different today, because women are less ashamed to talk about our experiences with pregnancy, how complicated it is, and how dangerous it can be in many different respects. But the problem is, there is a huge disconnect between cultural conversations and political power in the United States right now. Young people, especially, do not feel that their voices are making a difference when Congress is so dominated by older white men. As a band we talked a lot about what our role should be and, for us, it’s about partnering with organisations that talk about these issues. We’ve worked with Planned Parenthood for a long time, and we’re working with HeadCount, an organisation which helps people register to vote. Especially right now, these smaller local elections are huge in terms of people's rights to bodily autonomy.

What do you think, The Linda Lindas? I saw some report the other day that said Gen Z boys and men are becoming more right-wing, and more likely to think feminism is a problem than boomers.  Are things going backwards?

Lucia de la Garza: Yeah, that’s real. Information and misinformation can spread so quickly, and it’s pretty crazy to see how divisive that has been. I would say younger men being right wing is absolutely in response to women starting to have more power. Just as women were starting to be able to speak up for themselves, the older male generation started trying to influence younger men to be extra-misogynistic, and it’s really scary to see how quickly they responded to that.

And finally, do you have any questions for each other? 

Eloise Wong: Carrie and Corrin, what is your favourite dinosaur?

Carrie Brownstein: I read something in The Atlantic this morning about a chicken dinosaur and I was very excited, because it sounds like the worst thing ever. I know people love having chickens in their backyard, but I find them pretty gross. The idea of a chicken and dinosaur existing in one body, to me, is horrific. But my favourite is probably a stegosaurus. What about you guys? 

Eloise Wong: I like the ankylosaurus. It's like a turtle but it has horns and a big club tail. 

Carrie Brownstein: What are you most looking forward to about this Green Day tour?

Lucia de la Garza: We’re so excited. It’s going to be the longest tour we’ve ever been on – we’re missing six weeks of school.

Eloise Wong: We were at the video shoot for one of their new songs, ‘Bobby Sox’, the other day, and it was cool because we got to see them play in a backyard. It was just like hanging out.

Carrie Brownstein: Whose parents are coming along?

Lucia de la Garza: It’s a pretty long tour, so all of our parents are coming at some point. 

Eloise Wong: It's like a big family vacation. Sometimes our grandpa goes with us, if it’s somewhere cool or we’re flying international. We’re like ‘hey do you wanna come?’ and he’s kind of like ‘ehhh..’ But we drag him along anyway.

Little Rope by Sleater-Kinney is out now

(Lead image: Linda Lindas, photo by Emma McIntyre/Getty Images for Coachella; Sleater-Kinney, press)