You need to hear Wesley Joseph, the multihyphenate making sublime R&B

When the Zoom call connects, Wesley Joseph is in his east London studio, lit by the glare of those harsh ceiling spotlights. Later, he’ll tell me that he’s almost always there on his own, but, for now, he’s joined by two others, editing the music video for his new single “Sugar Dive”.

“We’re really excited for this next one,” the Walsall-born musician says of the self-directed clip. “We shot it on a huge plane and I wrote an anime parallel subplot. Wait, I’ll show you the frame real quick,” he offers, spinning the camera to reveal a wall-mounted monitor looking down on the space. For a brief second, studio Wesley Joseph, casual in a baseball cap and AirPods, is replaced by music video Wesley Joseph, standing on the wing of a giant passenger plane, decked in a Canadian tuxedo and accompanying concho belt.

“Sugar Dive” is taken from Joseph’s outstanding new project GLOW, the track’s liquid riffs and punchy bars representative of the record’s tone as a whole. For the former film student, creating music and visuals side by side is something that comes naturally. “They have very similar rules of showing restraint, and being very decisive and resourceful”, he says of the two practices, adding that “when I make the music, I often start seeing visuals, which inspire the lyrics until it's just one big, recyclable process.”

For Joseph, although music and film are in conversation, they occupy different parts of his creative brain. Much like one room divided by a thin, partition wall, if you shout loud enough, someone on the other side will eventually hear. Whereas a Wesley Joseph video is a “real, tangible thing” that takes a village to create, his music is “way more abstract”, about making art that “someone can completely interpret however they want”. This is evident in his songwriting process. Take the AK Paul-assisted “Monsoon”. When writing, the musician “kept a universal sense of ambiguity, particularly in the hooks, so they can relate to everyone”, but admits that “a lot of the raps are detailed, based in my real life and on my real opinions. That’s the magnifying glass into who I am.” It’s this double-edged approach (along with an ear for a killer hook) that sets Joseph out as one of the sharpest in the game.

Below, we chat to the musician about his creative evolution, journey to the capital, and that one conspiracy he can’t help but believe.

Hi Wesley! Congratulations on the release of the new project. What were some of your main inspirations for GLOW?

Wesley Joseph: I think the point of it for me was to not think too much and not really have a reference point. I just wanted to make what I was feeling and capture a period of time where I was following intuition instead of looking outwards. Whatever I felt that day was reflected [in the music] by the end of the day. I just did that until I had a bunch of songs that were the climax points – not to say the high points – but the most poignant points of how I was feeling across the whole period of time.

There were definitely things that inspired me, but I couldn’t think of any because it would have been subconscious. In hindsight, after making the project, it became obvious that it was a therapeutic album, and it was quite a reassuring, deep listen. But I only worked that out after I’d finished it.

How do you feel your sound has progressed since 2021’s Ultramarine?

Wesley Joseph: I think my musicality has matured. Understanding myself and naturally growing as a human being is reflected in the music, and being confident in my decisions. Because of that, you can hear more bold decisions being made. And I have more resources – I’ve met more musicians to bring in. Like I have AK Paul playing a guitar solo on a song, or Leon Vynehall running drums through some vintage compressor that I didn't have access to. Access, learning, growth, and confidence. All those things together is why it’s sounding better. Maybe not better, but more mature, or nuanced, or powerful, or defined.

Do you have any dream collaborations that haven’t happened yet?

Wesley Joseph: Yeah, so many. Sampha, James Blake, Bon Iver, Toro y Moi, Kendrick – obviously – Frank Ocean, Rihanna. I haven’t really worked with many people. I’ve kind of just been world-building on my own, in my little community. I’m sure when it comes to my album I’ll be trying to hit some of those on that list.

I’ve always wanted to work with a lot of the people that I’ve already worked with, like Leon Vynehall, AK Paul, I’ve been a huge fan of their work. Jorja [Smith] obviously – I grew up with her, but I’m a fan of her work. Joy Orbison, too. I’ve only worked with people that I’ve been a fan of, which I’m blessed to be able to say. The album will be more bucket list people getting ticked off. But if not, if I have a change of creativity and I want it to just be me, that’s what it will be.

“The only thumbs up I needed were from peers around me. I still feel that way now. That’s something people in London could learn” – Wesley Joseph

You mention Jorja Smith who you grew up with in Walsall. You were both in OG Horse Collective together?

Wesley Joseph: Yeah. When we were super young, we all started making music at the same time, and that was just the umbrella thing we went by.

How do the London and West Midlands creative scenes differ or compare?

Wesley Joseph: They differ completely because in London there’s way more of a network and a scene, and there’s a lot more energy. To be honest, there’s just more people, and there’s more places that people come from – the whole world is in this place. It’s very compact and if you’re interested in something, there’ll be a scene and a place and a night where that happens. There’s more studios and just more access to make things, which is what I needed and why I came here.

What do you think London could learn from the Walsall scene?

Wesley Joseph: There’s a sense of real identity, truth, resilience and an aggressive sense of unapologetic rawness that comes from a place like that, because it is what it is. Who you meet is who they are, no one’s trying to play a game. There’s not really as much using people, weird stuff like that. People are just really talented and making the music that they make.

Everything that I am is because I’m from a place that allowed me to be those things. The reason why I’m in a studio – on my own most of the time – and I can make a whole record, and direct a whole video, and creatively direct a campaign, is because back home that was what I knew, and that’s what I had to do. I developed a sense of identity and confidence doing those things. There wasn’t an industry to lean on, it was just community. The only thumbs up I needed were from peers around me. I still feel that way now. That’s something people in London – or the industry in London – could learn.

Would you record the soundtrack for Rishi Sunak’s next campaign for £10,000?

Wesley Joseph: If I had full creative control to change the tone of the campaign to make him look like a fool, then maybe. But at the same time, if I got it wrong, they’d be too much of a risk… I think I’ll just say no, actually.

Please share the most recent note from your Notes app.

Wesley Joseph: It’s a setlist for my Loyle Carner show, for the tour.

Your favourite cornershop snack?

Wesley Joseph: Bubblegum Millions.

What’s your ghost outfit?

Wesley Joseph: A 3M suit that glows whenever light flashes on it, with crazy glasses and glitter sequin boots.

What conspiracy theory are you actually quite into?

Wesley Joseph: I definitely had one at one point, but I stopped smoking weed quite a long time ago…

Well, it’s not really a conspiracy, but I believe in industry plants. I never used to, but now I know how it works from the inside, and how easily and quickly other people do certain things, I’m like, “Oh, industry plants do exist!”

Who is your nemesis?

Wesley Joseph: I was trying to get a Lime bike the other day and this guy parked one and hid it in a bush so he could use it again. I was looking for it for about 20 minutes and it made me late. So that guy.

What’s on your For You Page right now?

Wesley Joseph: I don’t really use TikTok like that, but my IG Explore page has a living room with really peng mid-century furniture, a guy hugging a tiger, Baby Keem talking about Frank Ocean at the Grammys, a white guy trying to get a skin fade to look like a Black person and a Black barber not approving of it, a clip from the 90s of Snoop Dogg cussing someone out, Skepta at fashion week, a puppy, and someone’s mouth wearing a grill that has The Last Supper on it.

What would the line-up be in your nightmare blunt rotation?

Wesley Joseph: Chet Hanks, Candace Owens, the Island Boys and Cycling Mikey.

GLOW is out now on Secretly Canadian/EEVILTWINN.

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